tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20670916.post2681697932684915384..comments2023-11-17T00:21:43.022-08:00Comments on The Broken Yogi Samyama: Academic "Pilot Study" of Fomer Adidam Members ReviewedBroken Yogihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02257804418740860542noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20670916.post-31605378478537728552010-12-07T07:07:40.988-08:002010-12-07T07:07:40.988-08:00Thanks Broken Yogi, I understand what you are sayi...Thanks Broken Yogi, I understand what you are saying. It seems to me that the 'cult' dynamic is an interplay, stemming from Adi Da but filtering through and becoming exacerbated by the community which has to deal with the interface with the outside world. Or lack thereof. It will be interesting to see what happens next.ReTracernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20670916.post-85683357324368982382010-12-03T11:08:53.114-08:002010-12-03T11:08:53.114-08:00ReTracer,
I'm not sure exactly what talk Morg...ReTracer,<br /><br />I'm not sure exactly what talk Morgan is referring to, but anything like that would I'm sure not be available online to the public. There's very, very little of internal Adidam material that's openly available, by strict policy. <br /><br />Not sure what talk Morgan saw or how he saw it. I've heard similar talks by Elizabeth and others, and please not the wording of Morgan's statement about it, "...she admits openly that the community created a cult." That's very different from saying that "she admits Adi Da created a cult". <br /><br />One of the chief characteristics of any charismatic cult is that the cult leader is always blameless for any faults in the group, and it is the group who has committed all the errors and must do all the penance. So even this statement of Elizabeth's is itself a symptom of the cultism she is addressing, rather than reflecting any real insight into the cultism of Adidam. It's acting out the logic of the cult even when trying to admit to cultism. It's not showing any ability to actually be free of the cultism that Adidam has created, because she simply cannot admit that Adi Da bears some significant responsibility for that cultism. If she did, then she might help rid Adidam of that cultism, but until she does, she only perpetuates it.Broken Yogihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02257804418740860542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20670916.post-72965857169285027802010-12-03T09:55:42.282-08:002010-12-03T09:55:42.282-08:00I know it's some time since anyone posted in t...I know it's some time since anyone posted in this thread, but I was curious about the talk by Elizabeth Brown that Morgan Zo-Callahan refers to in the last couple of comments. Is this something available online, and if so can anyone help me locate it?ReTracernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20670916.post-55134752800371883702009-12-01T01:34:23.386-08:002009-12-01T01:34:23.386-08:00Excuse me, Conrad, I believe you are Broken Yogi. ...Excuse me, Conrad, I believe you are Broken Yogi. Be well. Thanks again, with the wish we all sincerely practice the yearnings of our spiritual callings, Morgan<br /><br />Elizabeth Brown, BTW, is one of the 2 women who were closest to Adi Da. Her name is Ruchiradama Nadikanta. In her talk she admits openly that the community created a cult. I wish the community will shine with true service into our world. We're all together in this.morgan zo-callahanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08001503310888132771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20670916.post-33132109816236003342009-12-01T01:16:45.290-08:002009-12-01T01:16:45.290-08:00Hi, Conrad & Broken Yogi (wish I knew your nam...Hi, Conrad & Broken Yogi (wish I knew your name, B.Y.). Perhaps we've met. I was with Adi Da from 1973-1977 & , as Conrad says, experienced both positive & negative processes. I cherish the positive & am critical of the negative. Before Da became "Da," I always followed & understood "Bubba" as not separate from other spiritual masters (as he wrote earlier). "My work is not separate from the great spiritual teachers." I never felt or accepted Da as "God," except in the sense we are all "G-d." Bubba was a powerful teacher, especially if you could keep your own sense of discrimination & the ability to say no when you meant it. I felt I had to leave in '79 when the "worshipping" "idolization" was drowning out the teaching of "no seeking," of understanding our activity. I felt perfectly free to leave, even with community pressure to stay. I cannot deny Da had yogic powers; and I truly loved him as an extraordinary human teacher, but not above criticism. The few who spoke up were drowned out by "true believers," I'm afraid. I wrote about my time, for which I'm grateful, with Da at:<br />http://sites.google.com/site/intimatemeanderings. I recently viewed Elizabeth Brown's talk about Da's death & am curious & hopeful that the community will move on. <br /><br />Conrad, my dear friend, Marcus Holly (Rest in Peace)often spoke to me about you. Thanks for the conversations. Morgan Zo Callahanmorgan zo-callahanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08001503310888132771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20670916.post-52886602977558203212009-10-30T17:44:28.874-07:002009-10-30T17:44:28.874-07:00well said.well said.Losing M. Mindhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08593870441560584967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20670916.post-33615976828291692912009-10-30T14:20:36.288-07:002009-10-30T14:20:36.288-07:00LMM,
Understanding these kinds of situations from...LMM,<br /><br />Understanding these kinds of situations from the outside, without any direct experience is very difficult. Of course, understanding them from the inside may be even harder. My views about Adi Da and his organization are those of an insider, but I have to acknowledge that opinions vary widely. Even within my own experience there is a wide range of positive and negative views. I can certainly say there are ways in which Adi Da benefited me, and there are ways in which it negatively influenced me. This applies both spiritually and in life level terms. <br /><br />I'm not going to spend a lot of time writing about Adidam on this blog. I've already done so here and other places. You can look through the archives of this site if you're interested. I may write something in the future, some kind of summary now that Adi Da has passed on. I may write a review of his final, summary teaching book, which is coming out soon. But as for making some final judgment about him and his realization and his place in the spiritual history of our times, that's basically God's business now. If anyone wants to join Adidam after hearing the various points of view that have been aired, that's their business. Just as your relationship with Nome is your business. One can gain benefit from all kinds of sources and teachers, even those not entirely free of ego. One need not idealize a teacher or imagine they are perfect and free of all ego in order to benefit from their teachings. If that were true, humanity would be in truly dreadful shape, and things would be virtually hopeless for most of us. Fotunately, the Divine moves through this world in the form of every being and creature, with all of us playing some role in one another's liberation. That doesn't mean we should be blind to one another's faults, or the faults of spiritual teachers, but we should also appreciate what good does manage to come through, given the difficulties of this life.Broken Yogihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02257804418740860542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20670916.post-42876108612424258282009-10-30T12:18:30.571-07:002009-10-30T12:18:30.571-07:00It seems like the question of a guru, whether they...It seems like the question of a guru, whether they are qualified, is simply subjective experience. do I feel more peaceful, do they help me to look within myself. That is the only thing that seems really valid. everything else is untrue in comparison to that. That seems to be what Maharshi advised. I don't know whether adidam had that effect or not. Or whether the stress of being around him, in that organization, justifying his behavior was the experience, and not peace or bliss. Infact I'd almost be interested in how did being in that organization, or being around Adidam help you spiritually? Or did it harm you spiritually more then help you? If it did that seems like that is a sign that it is not good, or that perhaps it is not authentic. Because it seems like the facts about someone almost don't matter. I mean as is said, "if my guru frequented the toddy shop, I still know him by his guru nature".Losing M. Mindhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08593870441560584967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20670916.post-67615764757594034952009-10-30T12:03:25.726-07:002009-10-30T12:03:25.726-07:00Sorry, I'm writing so much. That is totally sc...Sorry, I'm writing so much. That is totally scandalous about Adidam being a former Scientologist and incorporating their principles. hmm, that makes one think.Losing M. Mindhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08593870441560584967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20670916.post-38889635096977439882009-10-30T12:00:53.285-07:002009-10-30T12:00:53.285-07:00Certainly my experiences with this teacher have ma...Certainly my experiences with this teacher have made me notice sometimes the gross difference between a person and their reputation. And so I'm not willing to be quick in judgement on adidam. For instance, it is noticaeble that when his reputation was "ruined", he joked about it, which almost suggests he didn't care what people thought of him. That is a little jnani-like. And in the clips i saw of him, he seemed pretty true to advaita in the things he said. But I'm also not saying it isn't true, or that he isn't the horrible abuser he has been made out to be. I just have no idea. I only read through part of your article. I don't think it would be fun to be part of any organization that made me into a proseyltizer, that I had to spread the "good word", and it sounds like Adidam had a whole public relations thing going on, taht seems pretty un-sagely. But I just don't know. These are just my impressions. I have no idea.Losing M. Mindhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08593870441560584967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20670916.post-17207071527334729552009-10-30T11:56:22.916-07:002009-10-30T11:56:22.916-07:00I know nothing about adidam. I read a little on wi...I know nothing about adidam. I read a little on wikipedia after hearing about him from you and another on david godman's blog. there was some really negative scandle. I also watched on youtube, one of hte really negative news thigns about him and his alleged sexual exploitation of "devotees". But on wikipedia, it was also saying that some of the accusations were false. Not all of them, but some of htem, and that he had not engaged in any illegal activity. (who knows?). you would no more, having insider experience. I watched a few clips of Adidam himself and i have to say, I didn't see anything that scandalous about him. He definitely had a presentation I didn't like on some level, something crude about him. But it occured to me, what if he was what robert Adams called a crazy adept. A jnani who lives some weird, strange life. (it was noticeable how still he was when not talking, and that reminded me of video of Maharshi) What is a cult? I have no idea. I thought I knew. Certainly if I was part of some group that felt abusive, or I didn't feel like i could be myself I might consider it a cult. Some of the anti-cult stuff is ironically culty like that guy Rick Ross, I went to some of their forums, and the thinking seemed pretty not clear. they were defining Byron Katie as a cult leader, and some other stuff that seemed pretty innocuous. My teacher, there is all is all sorts of gossip and defamation about him on Guru ratings, but also some people defending him. If i didn't correspond with him, and the selfless and helpful way he responds, and the kind unassuming way he carried himself when I was in his presence, I would have tooken some of that stuff seriously. It definitely made me question believing rumors or gossip about people, and trust direct experience more. And that teacher, has done nothing but be a great aid to self-inquiry and finding the happiness within in a tangible way. Also like Maharshi's quote, "someone who tells you what to do is not a master, but a killer". This teacher gives only the slightest suggestions concering spiritual practice, but has never given any kind of direct advise on worldly things, even whether I should move to Santa cruz to take advantage of in person satsang. He never answers those kind of questions. this subject seems rather mysterious to me.Losing M. Mindhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08593870441560584967noreply@blogger.com